Comments on Good Grief

I consider this a hopeful development, Mike. It's so blatant a leftist overreach -- about like teaching Communism in the classroom -- that it almost can't help but provoke a massive backlash.

Of course, to make certain the backlash occurs, the incident must be publicized until Hell wouldn't have it.

Sounds like a straw that broke the camels back kinda thing to me. This Christian has probably tried to teach his fifth graders about God before and all about how this country is founded as a christian country yadda yadda yadda and each time was restrained. So he goes and gets the Declaration of Independence so he can show the little darlings that the founding fathers talked about the creator and divinity and all that crap.

Funny thing though, Islam also talks about a creator and divinity and all that crap, so do several other religions, is he going to teach them all? This whole christian country thing has gone too far, that's what's gone too far. The founding fathers went out of their way to make sure there was no state religion, no national religion, that everybody had the freedom to worship and believe what they wanted to.

I'm not a christian and I wouldn't want my kid taught that crap in school. Next thing he'll be teaching his science class that the dinosaurs died in the great flood, and the grand canyon was created by the flood, too. Let him go teach in a Catholic school somewhere.

Oh, I forgot... if we're going to look at things in context, then I guess we have to remember that these 'religious men' also owned slaves, and had affairs with them, and when they wrote that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..." they weren't talking about the slaves, or women, or the 'savages', just white men like them.

These men were no more religious than I am, in context. The world was a much more 'religious' place. These men grew up in the Church of England, where they had to attend church or be considered sinners or whatever. The majority of the real religious men were loyalists, the founding fathers were revolutionaries, men ahead of their time, not christian puritans as some would have us believe...

Sorry Mikey... This christian crap pisses me off almost as much as chickenhawks...

hey weren't talking about the slaves, or women, or the 'savages', just white men like them.

This is to what I refer when I say it has to be taken into context.

We view being slave owners as repugnant here in the 21st century whereas in the 18th century, it would have been considered "normal" in Colonial society.

Absolutely, I agree, as would their level of 'religiosity'... they talked about god as a matter of daily life... does that mean they were "religious men", "devout christians", or is it a reflection of the times?

btw, according to the bible, it's ok to own slaves ;), even god handed out slaves as a reward...

"The Lord has greatly blessed my master, and he has become rich. He has given him sheep and cattle, silver and gold, male and female slaves, and camels and donkeys."

Genesis 24:34

camels and donkeys and slaves, oh my!

Scroff, which translation is that from?
The New International Version (most widely read after the King James Version) says it differently.

A servant of Abraham is sent to find a wife for his son Isaac. He tells Rebekah and Laban in Genesis 24:34-35:

34"So he said, 'I am Abraham's servant. 35The Lord has blessed my master abundantly, and he has become wealthy. He has given him sheep and cattle, silver and gold, manservants and maidservants, and camels and donkeys.'"

These were not slaves in that they are stolen from their families and forced into involuntary servitude.
They were assistants, maids, etc, who served the wealthy Abraham because it was a way of life that was better than scrounging for crumbs in a ditch somewhere.
They served willingly, and were free to leave at any time. It was a kind of patronage, not slavery.

Moses brought his people OUT of slavery, and Abraham did not then turn around enslave them.

I guess if the principal has a problem with documents that refer to God, the school district should not provide her with, and she should refuse, any slips of paper or metal tokens that have "In God We Trust" printed on them.

As to the Declaration of Independence: It mentions "Nature's God" in the first paragraph, a "Creator" in the second and the last paragraph mentions a "Supreme Judge of the world" and a reliance on the "Protection of divine Providence."

4 times in a 1300-word document.

I take His name in vain more times than that in a hour.

Mikey - If you read Frontpagemag.com you'd know that this crap is happening all over the country, but especially in California.

Meet loony leftie Green Party member and elementary school teacher indoctrinator, Sarah Lipson

Meet loony leftie Green Party member and elementary school teacher...

better that than the jesus freaks trying to cram jeezus and gawd down my kids throat

While quaint and interesting reading, the bible is a story book that should only be taught to those who express an interest in it, in any guise.

I'm glad this is still here, because it's just like I thought, some evangelical christian fanatic nutjob trying to preach jayzus in the classroom...

from Media Matters

"Even the lawsuit brought forth on behalf of teacher Steve Williams by the right-wing Alliance Defense Fund challenging the school's decision to prohibit the handouts acknowledged that the school has not imposed an outright prohibition on the mention of God or the discussion of religious beliefs in the classroom. The lawsuit recognized that "other teachers are permitted to show films and distribute handouts containing references to God," and that Williams had been permitted to teach "lessons on the origins of religious holidays" during that school year and had provided handouts relating to religion in the past "without any problems." Despite that acknowledgement, an Alliance Defense Fund press release about the lawsuit was headlined "Declaration of Independence Banned from Classroom."

The notion that the school banned that document originated in an erroneous November 24 Reuters article headlined "Declaration of Independence Banned at Calif. School." But the school prohibited only supplemental handouts distributed by teacher Steve Williams to his students that selectively chose excerpts from the Declaration of Independence making reference to God -- along with other handouts that appeared to proselytize Christianity. A December 8 article in the San Francisco Chronicle noted that parents had complained to the school about Williams, stating that his teaching "crossed the line into evangelizing." In response, Stevens Creek Principal Patricia Vidmar began reviewing Wiiliams's lesson plans and supplemental handouts in advance."

If people want to twist their kids heads around with all this jeesuz crap let them do it at home, keep it out of our schools. If Jesus could see what people are doing today in his name he'd do more than overturn tables...

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