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Hiroshima, 60 Years LaterI saw this cover a few days ago while standing in line to purchase my Ortega Corn Taco Shells.
From radiation studies to restored photos to the rebuilding of Hiroshima, the web captures the bomb's lasting impact on Hiroshima today
After the atomic bomb was droppped on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, historians and survivors, alike, have collected information on the bomb's destruction and future impact. The modern city of Hiroshima now honors its victims with museums, annual ceremonies and peace declarations. To learn about Hiroshima's recovery and read eyewitness accounts from survivors, check out these sites.
My first thought was Oh jeez....more whining about this. I thought about it for a few more seconds and confirmed my initial thought - it was whining about it.
I do feel for the woman on the cover having lost her entire family in the fireball that consumed Hiroshima, but that's why they call it WAR. What were we supposed to do - use really, really harsh language!?!
What boggles me is that while everyone is content to whine and bitch & moan about the destructive powere unleshed on innocent civilians, they seem to forget the alternative: the cost in casualties by having to invade the Japanese homeland.
The plans for invading were in two parts: Operation Olympic, the invasion of the Southern Main Island of Kyushu, scheduled for 1 Nov, 1945 and Operation Coronet, to assault the Central Main Island of Honshu, and drive into the Kanto Plain, and Tokyo, set for the Spring of 1946. The casualties projections weren't pretty.
From the Federation of American Scientists' white paper on the of the events leading up to Hiroshima:
With the casualty ratios of those battles applied to Operation Olympic, the estimate for U.S. casualties would have been 94,000 killed and 234,000 wounded.(8) The total casualty estimate of 328,000 equates to 57 percent of the U.S. ground forces slated for Olympic.And that was only American casualties. The casualty estimates of Japanese civilians were much higher.
In addition to U.S. casualties, the Japanese on Kyushu would likely have suffered upwards of 2,000,000 military and civilian casualties. These projected figures for Kyushu far exceed the casualties inflicted by the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which ended the War with Japan.Up to 2 million military and civilian deaths.
Two million.
You would have to have 20 Los Angeles Memorial Coliseums to accommodate two million people.
Had Operation Olympic and Operation Coronet been launched instead of dropping atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there would still be people bitching & moaning about the loss of life and there had to be an alternative to this! shrill speeches.
And I can say that I had a personal stake in the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki: my father flew a Navy divebomber in the Pacific during the war and would have most certainly been involved in the invasion of Kyushu and Honshu. Had these invasions taken place there was a significant chance that my father would have either been shot down and captured or been outright killed. And it doesn't take a PhD in time travel theory to decern that had this happened, I would not be here today.
What I'm getting at is that YES, there is much (if not too much) grief, pain, horror, and suffering stemming from the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - I'm not denying that. What is often overlooked is that while there were many, many deaths from the bombings, there would have been more had the United States gone the conventional route.
The bombings were a part of history that takes on a horrific meaning - both bad & good. Bad in that many people died that weren't directly involved in combat operations; good in that there's a lesson to be learned here.....that lesson is: if you're going to start a war, be prepared to reap its rewards and its punishments however harsh. It's called WAR for a reason and if it weren't for events like this, war would be called 'unpleasant disagreement'.
I appreciate that you keep this blog going and allow comments. To me feedback is an interesting p
Read more in 60 Years Later The Whining is Still Loud
Mad Mikey said:
....I paraphrased what you said, and offered another example of the logic.
Wrong
Read more in 60 Years Later The Whining is Still Loud
Yet Another MIKE said:
If the commentary was racist, then it came from you - I paraphrased what you said, and offered an
Read more in 60 Years Later The Whining is Still Loud
Yet Another MIKE said:
COMMENT DELETED FOR RACIST CONTENT
Keep it up slick and you'll be banned in a micr
Read more in 60 Years Later The Whining is Still Loud
Mad Mikey said:
WOW, that's got to be about the ugliest thing I have ever heard.
It's my opinion;
Read more in 60 Years Later The Whining is Still Loud
Yet Another MIKE said:
WOW, that's got to be about the ugliest thing I have ever heard.
These people, civilians,
Read more in 60 Years Later The Whining is Still Loud
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Comments on 60 Years Later The Whining is Still Loud
Am I the only one who has the right hand column still covering part of the posts on your new blog. I can't read the posts! When I click "read more" it opens the post up to full page, and the right hand column is right in the middle of it! Very aggravating, but nothing I can do about it.
|| Posted by Cait, August 3, 2005 05:52 AM ||Beh. Maybe next time you'll keep your filthy bombers out of our airspace.
|| Posted by Yogimus, August 3, 2005 06:04 AM ||Cait: Yours is a problem with using IE5 or IE6. I'm currently trying to work out the problems - sorry.
Maybe you should switch to Mozilla Firefox!?!
|| Posted by Mad Mikey, August 3, 2005 09:57 AM ||I just got used to IE. I'm not switching to anything else until I absolutely have to or the computer wizard that lives here tells me it's time. Sorry.
|| Posted by Cait, August 4, 2005 05:49 AM ||I honestly don't get the whining about this. We were invaded. We had the choice of 100K+ US dead or nuke them, to end it. VERY simple choice.
You don't want your ass blown up, don't invade us.
Cait: Really, you need to switch to Firefox. I converted our entire bank a few months ago. Easier to use, better protection, not as vulnerable to hacker games (yet).
|| Posted by The Other Mike S, August 4, 2005 10:24 PM ||WOW, that's got to be about the ugliest thing I have ever heard.
These people, civilians, did not just fall over dead. They suffered terribly. To this day, there are people who have bomb related injuries - genetic damage, leukemia... People who where born after 1945.
I don't care if you think the action was necessary or not - there was a war. But for fucks sake, have the decency to recognize that any action that results in the death of innocents should be treated with the utmost sobriety - maybe you ought to be a little more circumspect before you start assigning the blame to the victims. War is Hell. And it's not the people who declare it who suffer, it's the rest of us. I suppose you think it's whiny for the Jews to have a holocaust museum.
The way you rattle on about these things - like a redneck cheerleader bragging about how tough your boyfriend is - it's disgraceful. You don't know what it means to be an American - all you know is how to be a bully with a big mouth.
That's not patriotism, that's a Manifest Destiny gone to seed. Our soldiers in World War II? Heros all. The civilians on both side killed in the crossfire? The people who footed the bill for your freedom.
An ounce of respect?
|| Posted by Yet Another MIKE, August 7, 2005 11:56 AM ||WOW, that's got to be about the ugliest thing I have ever heard.
It's my opinion; if you think it's 'ugly', then you had better take a longer look at life as it too is 'ugly'.
These people, civilians, did not just fall over dead. They suffered terribly. To this day, there are people who have bomb related injuries - genetic damage, leukemia... People who where born after 1945.
So did a lot of the casualties from the attack on Pearl Harbor. What, do you think that the Japanese have a lock on the 'suffering' category? What would you say about the suffering of the Chinese in Nanking, especially after the invasion of the city and the subsequent 'biological warfare' that the Japanese unleashed on the city?
Hmmmm?
How many people died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Two hundred thousand? Four hundred thousand? Bet you weren't even aware that close to 400,000 Chinese were murdered in Nanking - all at the hands of the Japanese and that was only in China; add in what happened in the Phillipines, Burma, and in the Solomon Islands group and you've got just a shining example of why the nukes were not only required, but justified in spades.
Since you're so concerned about 'people suffering' during war, maybe you might want to read what the Japanese were really like during the war and why the decision to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki wasn't too hard of a choice to make.
I don't care if you think the action was necessary or not - there was a war.
Really? And who do you think started it? Bolivians? Peeved off Icelandic villagers?
But for fucks sake, have the decency to recognize that any action that results in the death of innocents should be treated with the utmost sobriety - maybe you ought to be a little more circumspect before you start assigning the blame to the victims.
I'm not assigning 'blame on the vicitims' - I'm assigning blame on the entire nation of Japan. They started the war and they reaped the 'rewards' from it.
War is Hell. And it's not the people who declare it who suffer, it's the rest of us.
This just comfirms my last statement.
I suppose you think it's whiny for the Jews to have a holocaust museum.
Not at all. But you're attempting to over-emphasize the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I feel sorry for those that lost their lives, but like you said: War is Hell. Those that attempt to minimize its affects are stupid.
The way you rattle on about these things - like a redneck cheerleader bragging about how tough your boyfriend is - it's disgraceful.
It's an opinion asshole - MY opinion. You might do well to realize that while you might not agree with my opinion that you're in no position to silence me from expressing it. Honestly, if you don't like it - shove it up your ass sporto...
You don't know what it means to be an American - all you know is how to be a bully with a big mouth.
And you do!?! Part of being 'American' is knowing that you're free to express your thoughts and opinions on a great many things and that people are also free to be offended.
There's a amendment to the Constitution of the United States that expressly promotes 'Freedom of Speech'; there is NO amendment that guarentees you won't be offended by someone else's speech.
You must be a Rhodes Scholar to think that something offense must be silenced or 'shamed' into silence. You might want to consider re-reading the Constitution....
That's not patriotism, that's a Manifest Destiny gone to seed.
WTF does 'patriotism' come into play here? You're attemping to compare apples to Buicks.
Our soldiers in World War II? Heros all.
You're god damn right they are. And if you had read the entire post you'd see why I put forth the notion that the bombings were correct given the situation towards the end of the war and that it was beneficial for a great many people, including many Japanese civilians, many American soldiers, sailors, and Marines, and lastly myself.
If you're going to try and critic my post, then at least take the time to read the entire thing you ignorant fuck nugget.
The civilians on both side killed in the crossfire? The people who footed the bill for your freedom.
You're right - for my freedom, YOUR freedom, and the freedom of the people of Germany and Japan 60 years later.
An ounce of respect?
I have respect for intelligence; in this case, you're striking out and so does anyone who thinks 'BOO-HOO' on this without looking at the BIG picture and to put this into context.
You - like many other morons - are attempting to critic this event from 60 years ago using 21st century mentality and socio-political standards.
Stop it right now - you're making yourself look simply foolish.
|| Posted by Mad Mikey, August 7, 2005 09:04 PM ||COMMENT DELETED FOR RACIST CONTENT
Keep it up slick and you'll be banned in a microsecond.....
|| Posted by Yet Another MIKE, August 8, 2005 09:25 AM ||If the commentary was racist, then it came from you - I paraphrased what you said, and offered another example of the logic. (I'm a Japanese/American, btw.)
My point is that what you so blithely call whining is the leftovers of an action that was tragic for both sides. No one wanted to blast those people into kingdom come, and they certainly didn't want to have Hell on Earth unleashed upon them. See, Imperial Japan was not known for it's well oiled democracy - these people didn't really have a say in whatever their country did. And that's tragic, and their fate was both hard and harsh. And the people in Washington who made that decision (pay attention, I'm agreeing with) didn't do so lightly - they paid careful attention to the details and took what they considered to be the path of lesser evil for what they hoped would be the greater good.
Those people who you so cheerfully call whiners where fucked by history, no matter how you slice it. Whatever possesses you to shout "tough tits" to them isn't well thought out.
*KABOOM* Oh look, I'm banned. Small wonder.
|| Posted by Yet Another MIKE, August 8, 2005 10:59 AM ||....I paraphrased what you said, and offered another example of the logic.
Wrong answer sport.
I won't repeat what YOU wrote and I deleted, but IMO it was racist and as such, I excercised my power and deleted your crappy response.
No one wanted to blast those people into kingdom come, and they certainly didn't want to have Hell on Earth unleashed upon them.
And you think that instead of not dropping the bombs that there would have been a happier ending with the planned invasion? What the hell is wrong with you anyway....?
And the people in Washington who made that decision (pay attention, I'm agreeing with) didn't do so lightly - they paid careful attention to the details and took what they considered to be the path of lesser evil for what they hoped would be the greater good.
So what is the problem? I would think that looking at the big picture you'd be at least semi-satisfied that there weren't 2 million casualties....
Those people who you so cheerfully call whiners where fucked by history, no matter how you slice it.
You're right about that.
Whatever possesses you to shout "tough tits" to them isn't well thought out.
IMO it is well thought out.
Bear in mind that these are my opinions being expressed here. An opinion is subjective and as such, you might bear that in mind while reading it.
My purpose in saying 'get over it' is that while it is important to remember these horrible events and quite possibly learn from them, it's not the bandwagon to get on to harp about those 'evil Americans....nuking innocent civilians'. In fact, there's no real bandwagon in which to get on at all about this in my opinion. (Darn, that nasty 'o' word again).
I'm not applauding the death from the bombings - I'm saying that people should not attempt to equate what happend 60 years ago with any possible 21st century equivalent....that's the ultimate goal of the MSM with harping about it so much 60 years later.
It was bad, but it could have been a LOT worse.
And no, you're not banned. You're last comment, while inane in many respects IMO, wasn't racist. I do not ban people lightly; you're only banned when you get really, really nasty (like ivoking personal insults) or you start promoting crap I do not agree with like racism or pedophilia or something quite repugnant.
|| Posted by Mad Mikey, August 8, 2005 11:16 AM ||I appreciate that you keep this blog going and allow comments. To me feedback is an interesting part of a blog.
|| Posted by Jelisca, August 16, 2005 07:46 AM ||